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Is Irish craft beer good enough? 4 years 6 months ago #25

"andrew":1yjdb1ok wrote: Most likely due to untreated water where chlorine is bonding with the phenols created by the yeast.[/quote:1yjdb1ok]

That's what the books say, but not it's not bourne out by experience. Most breweries, if not all have some water treatment. The most recent brewer of TCP is on RO.

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Is Irish craft beer good enough? 4 years 6 months ago #26

"Tube":4xx6fzii wrote:

"andrew":4xx6fzii wrote: Most likely due to untreated water where chlorine is bonding with the phenols created by the yeast.[/quote:4xx6fzii]

That's what the books say, but not it's not bourne out by experience. Most breweries, if not all have some water treatment. The most recent brewer of TCP is on RO.[/quote:4xx6fzii]
Then the next obvious source would be un-rinsed sanitiser. The chlorine has to be coming from somewhere.

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Is Irish craft beer good enough? 4 years 6 months ago #27

"andrew":3edz2vbq wrote: Then the next obvious source would be un-rinsed sanitiser. The chlorine has to be coming from somewhere.[/quote:3edz2vbq]
Sanitiser is almost universally peracetic acid solution. But even if something wasn't rinsed off it would show up immediately in the QC stage after packaging.

Wild yeast (which is what I was getting at with "a yeast") contamination otoh will take time to show up.

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Is Irish craft beer good enough? 4 years 6 months ago #28

"Tube":nfxee8fv wrote:

"andrew":nfxee8fv wrote: Then the next obvious source would be un-rinsed sanitiser. The chlorine has to be coming from somewhere.[/quote:nfxee8fv]
Sanitiser is almost universally peracetic acid solution. But even if something wasn't rinsed off it would show up immediately in the QC stage after packaging.

Wild yeast (which is what I was getting at with "a yeast") contamination otoh will take time to show up.[/quote:nfxee8fv]
Yes, but yeast cannot synthesize chlorine out of thin air...

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Is Irish craft beer good enough? 4 years 6 months ago #29

The phenolic/TCP like flavours are caused by compounds which don't actually contain chlorine.

Google ferulic acid, guaiacol, etc.

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Is Irish craft beer good enough? 4 years 6 months ago #30

"Tube":2gfb0uvy wrote: The phenolic/TCP like flavours are caused by compounds which don't actually contain chlorine.

Google ferulic acid, guaiacol, etc.[/quote:2gfb0uvy]
Ferulic acid is converted into guaiacol by yeast, usually during the acid rest phase.

Guaiacol is a phenol- it would still need to bind to chlorine to create chlorohpenol/TCP like flavours. Guaiacol is a smoky like flavour (4-vinyl-guaiacol is a clove like flavour).

Sorry, no reference material I have seen supports your assertion that chlorophenolic flavours can be simply created by yeast (and without the presence of chlorine- the hint is, it's in the name: [b:2gfb0uvy]chloro[/b:2gfb0uvy]phenol)

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